Posts by Doug Mason

17

Uncovering "GOD"

by Doug Mason in

with self-righteous indignation, the watchtower society (wts) points to its restoration of the hebrew tetragram (hwhy = “yahweh” = = = > “jehovah”) wherever the english translator renders it as “lord”..

the wts complains that the use of “lord” hides the fact that the name (“jehovah” for the wts) is intended.

however, with its call of “look over here, look over here”, the wts diverts attention, probably unintentionally, from related information that it, in turn, does not reveal..

Doug Mason

Onager,

Thank you for that link to bibleorigins. I have copied it to my computer.

My research also says that HWHY (Yahweh) is an amalgam of other gods. He started out as a warrior god from the south. After the Israelites adopted him, they made him their chief god, replacing EL.

Initially Baal and Yahweh had much in common. El was different, being a kindly god, portrayed as an old man with a long beard -- an "Ancient of Days" character. His goddess wife was named Asherah.

Over time, attributes and characteristics of other gods were applied to Yahweh, including feminine qualities.

When reading the written material (aka Hebrew Scriptures) it is important to identify the religious politics at play. Much of it as we have it today results from the "Deuteronomists" at the time of the Babylonian Captivity. These people were determined monotheists and this is reflected in their writings. Note particularly the material by "Second Isaiah", namely chapters 40 ff of Isaiah. These were produced at the time of the Captivity. Note the strong emphasis they place on Yahweh and that there was no other god, dead or living.

They denigrated anyone who they did not agree with and they distorted the historical record to reflect their ambitions and views. The only people to come out completely unscathed are Hezekiah and Josiah, inasmuch as these kings supported their views. Since these writers came from the south (Jerusalem), all northern (Israeli) kings were bad.

But at least in making their condemnations, the writers were acknowledging that the Israelites were polytheists.

Doug

17

Uncovering "GOD"

by Doug Mason in

with self-righteous indignation, the watchtower society (wts) points to its restoration of the hebrew tetragram (hwhy = “yahweh” = = = > “jehovah”) wherever the english translator renders it as “lord”..

the wts complains that the use of “lord” hides the fact that the name (“jehovah” for the wts) is intended.

however, with its call of “look over here, look over here”, the wts diverts attention, probably unintentionally, from related information that it, in turn, does not reveal..

Doug Mason

With self-righteous indignation, the Watchtower Society (WTS) points to its restoration of the Hebrew Tetragram (HWHY = “Yahweh” = = = > “Jehovah”) wherever the English translator renders it as “LORD”.

The WTS complains that the use of “LORD” hides the fact that the Name (“Jehovah” for the WTS) is intended. However, with its call of “look over here, look over here”, the WTS diverts attention, probably unintentionally, from related information that it, in turn, does not reveal.

Not only does “LORD” hide “Yahweh” from open view, but the same happens with the word “GOD”. In this instance, the Name of this god is – in English – “EL”.

This god named EL was the chief god of the Canaanites. His goddess wife was named Asherah (or variants thereof). They had 70 sons, all gods, including Baal. Together, these gods were known as the “Elohim”.

EL (“God”) and his ELOHIM (“let us make”) are encountered in the first chapter of Genesis. At the time that chapter was written, the Israelites were dominantly polytheists.

Yahweh was not a member of the Elohim. While the Elohim came to the Israelites (hill-dwelling Canaanites) from the north, Yahweh came to the Israelites from the south – likely from the region of Moses’ father-in-law. Yahweh came as a warrior-god who controlled nature. Baal and Yahweh shared these characteristics.

The Israelites adopted Yahweh as their main and national god. They practised monolatry, meaning that they treated Yahweh as their dominant god while not denying the existence of other gods. They were aware of and worshiped other gods.

“In the Judges period, Israelite divinities may have included Yahweh, El, Baal, and perhaps Asherah as well as the sun, moon, and stars. During the monarchy, Yahweh, Baal, Astarte, and the sun, moon, and stars were considered deities in Israel. … The Queen of Heaven (Jer. 7:18; 44:18-19, 25) was the title of a goddess, perhaps Astarte, Ishtar (or, a syncretized Astarte-Ishtar) or, less likely, Anat.” (“The Early History of God: Yahweh and Other Deities in Ancient Israel”, page 182, Mark Smith.)

The Ten Commandments simply ordered them to ensure that they did not put any of these other gods “before” the god who was speaking to Moses.

Over time, the Israelites assimilated characteristics of other gods and goddesses into Yahweh. Some reassigned Asherah to Yahweh as his consort.

The disaster of the Babylonian Captivity and Exile provided the opportunity for the minority group that was intent on making Yahweh the one and only god. See, for example, “Second” Isaiah (from chapter 40 on). They moved from monolatry to monotheism.

The nation that emerged from the Exile is different to the nation that existed before. They transitioned from Israelites and Hebrews to Jews, with parties such as the Pharisees being created.

Next time you encounter the WTS’s cry of “look over here at what we have uncovered with ‘LORD’”, remember the facts about “GOD” (EL) that the WTS fails to uncover – facts that would be too uncomfortable for it.

Doug

20

Sources of John's vivid imagery

by Doug Mason in

in common with other apocalyptic writings, such as daniel and 1 enoch, john’s letter employs vivid, memorable imagery.

as with the other elements of his apocalypse (revelation), john draws on existing sources for his material.. meanings inferred from the images need to keep the following firmly in mind:.

1. the symbols had to have meaning for and be clearly understood by his immediate intended hearers.. 2. john intended that these images encourage those hearers to “overcome”, then and there.. 3. john anticipated that the coming of jesus was imminent, “soon”.. it is my belief that the images were intended to depict earthly opposition (rome and apostate jews) as well as heavenly opposition (wars in heaven involving satan).. the writers/compilers of daniel also employed vivid imagery.

Doug Mason

Bobcat.

I looked at many places but without any joy. Such as at:

http://judaism-and-rome.cnrs.fr/ezekiel-apocalypse-transformation-prophetic-language-revelation-16-17-19-10

Were you able to download that PDF of the thesis that I gave the link for? It's searchable and you will find comments about Jean-Pierre Ruiz in it.

Also, a search for his name (in full) will tell you where he is currently -- and possibly contactable(?). I see that he is on a YouTube video, but I did not look at it.

Doug

20

Sources of John's vivid imagery

by Doug Mason in

in common with other apocalyptic writings, such as daniel and 1 enoch, john’s letter employs vivid, memorable imagery.

as with the other elements of his apocalypse (revelation), john draws on existing sources for his material.. meanings inferred from the images need to keep the following firmly in mind:.

1. the symbols had to have meaning for and be clearly understood by his immediate intended hearers.. 2. john intended that these images encourage those hearers to “overcome”, then and there.. 3. john anticipated that the coming of jesus was imminent, “soon”.. it is my belief that the images were intended to depict earthly opposition (rome and apostate jews) as well as heavenly opposition (wars in heaven involving satan).. the writers/compilers of daniel also employed vivid imagery.

Doug Mason

Regarding the planets, Venus -- the Morning Star -- was known as "Lucifer". Jesus thus gives himself that name -- Rev 22:16.

Doug

20

Sources of John's vivid imagery

by Doug Mason in

in common with other apocalyptic writings, such as daniel and 1 enoch, john’s letter employs vivid, memorable imagery.

as with the other elements of his apocalypse (revelation), john draws on existing sources for his material.. meanings inferred from the images need to keep the following firmly in mind:.

1. the symbols had to have meaning for and be clearly understood by his immediate intended hearers.. 2. john intended that these images encourage those hearers to “overcome”, then and there.. 3. john anticipated that the coming of jesus was imminent, “soon”.. it is my belief that the images were intended to depict earthly opposition (rome and apostate jews) as well as heavenly opposition (wars in heaven involving satan).. the writers/compilers of daniel also employed vivid imagery.

Doug Mason

What an amazing array of information. I am impressed.

I in no way pretend to know the answers, but my hope is that we are all inspired to read and research honestly and openly. And to then live our lives according to our own convictions, and to extend to others the same respect that we want for ourselves. My desire is to inspire research so that others will experience the excitement of challenge and discovery.

I believe Revelation had to have immediate meaning to the hearers, therefore any understanding of the narratives and the symbols need to be looked at through the directly immediate intended hearers. There can be no doubt that John drew on the supernatural imagery they were familiar with. But we must beware of imposing the ideas of different and subsequent communities upon that time.

As for accommodating the date of Revelation? My initial reaction is that we do not know what was originally written (which is true for all of those writings). The earliest written material comes to us from maybe 300 years later, and much had been done to the material during that time. I do not know the answer to that difficulty.

It is my view that a symbol represented either Satan or Rome (maybe as agents of Satan??) and that John built on previously known images.

I have looked online for the book, "Ezekiel in the Apocalypse", without success. It intrigues me.

In the process of searching, I came across this one, which might be promising. When you select it, it downloads directly (at least it did to my computer).

https://www.era.lib.ed.ac.uk/bitstream/handle/1842/8887/Luo1999.pdf

Doug

20

Sources of John's vivid imagery

by Doug Mason in

in common with other apocalyptic writings, such as daniel and 1 enoch, john’s letter employs vivid, memorable imagery.

as with the other elements of his apocalypse (revelation), john draws on existing sources for his material.. meanings inferred from the images need to keep the following firmly in mind:.

1. the symbols had to have meaning for and be clearly understood by his immediate intended hearers.. 2. john intended that these images encourage those hearers to “overcome”, then and there.. 3. john anticipated that the coming of jesus was imminent, “soon”.. it is my belief that the images were intended to depict earthly opposition (rome and apostate jews) as well as heavenly opposition (wars in heaven involving satan).. the writers/compilers of daniel also employed vivid imagery.

Doug Mason

Yes Venus,

You are citing a guy who created symbols, imagery, and a whole lot more. He is the guy who invented symbolism of baptism, invented the symbolism of the "Last Supper", who heard voices in his head, spoke with the spirit of a dead man, and experienced flashes of blinding light inside his mind.

It's all myth. Supernatural superstition. Only opinions. Read the history of the introduction of the gods into the world of the Israelites.

I feel that what should interest you more is the way that the male writers of the Bible took so much effort to write the Israelite goddesses out of existence, and as a result created a misogynist religion, with all the consequences in our day.

My question is: "What is it that gives the power of mythology over the human mind?"

Doug

20

Sources of John's vivid imagery

by Doug Mason in

in common with other apocalyptic writings, such as daniel and 1 enoch, john’s letter employs vivid, memorable imagery.

as with the other elements of his apocalypse (revelation), john draws on existing sources for his material.. meanings inferred from the images need to keep the following firmly in mind:.

1. the symbols had to have meaning for and be clearly understood by his immediate intended hearers.. 2. john intended that these images encourage those hearers to “overcome”, then and there.. 3. john anticipated that the coming of jesus was imminent, “soon”.. it is my belief that the images were intended to depict earthly opposition (rome and apostate jews) as well as heavenly opposition (wars in heaven involving satan).. the writers/compilers of daniel also employed vivid imagery.

Doug Mason

In common with other apocalyptic writings, such as Daniel and 1 Enoch, John’s letter employs vivid, memorable imagery. As with the other elements of his Apocalypse (Revelation), John draws on existing sources for his material.

Meanings inferred from the images need to keep the following firmly in mind:

1. The symbols had to have meaning for and be clearly understood by his immediate intended hearers.

2. John intended that these images encourage those hearers to “overcome”, then and there.

3. John anticipated that the Coming of Jesus was imminent, “soon”.

It is my belief that the images were intended to depict earthly opposition (Rome and apostate Jews) as well as heavenly opposition (wars in heaven involving Satan).

The writers/compilers of Daniel also employed vivid imagery. They wrote while their community was under threat by Antiochus Epiphanes. Through the use of vivid images, John and Daniel were able to pass on supportive messages to their respective communities.

For his symbols, John made full use of the array of material available to him. There was no Canon of Scripture at the time.

The following citations on the imagery of the seven-headed beast provide Jewish and non-Jewish sources available to John.

==================

Common to both Yahweh and Baal was also a constellation of motifs surrounding their martial and meteorological natures. The best-known and oldest of these motifs is perhaps the defeat of cosmic foes who are variously termed Leviathan, ‘qltn, tnn, the seven-headed beast, Yamm, and Mot. (The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel, page 85, Mark Smith).

------

A seal from Tel Asmar (ca. 2200) depicts a god battling a seven-headed dragon, a foe identified as Baal’s enemy in CTA 5.1 (KTU 1.5 I).3 (and reconstructed in 30) and Yahweh’s adversary in Psalm 74:13 and Revelation 13:1. A shell plaque of unknown provenance depicts a god kneeling before a fiery seven-headed dragon. Leviathan, Baal’s enemy mentioned in CTA 5.1 (KTU 1.5 I).1 (and reconstructed in 28), appears as Yahweh’s opponent and creature in Isaiah 27:1, Job 3:8, 26:13, 40:25 (E 41:1), Psalm 104:26, and 2 Esdras 6:49, 52. In Psalm 74:13-14 (cf. Ezek. 32:2), both Leviathan and the tannînîm have multiple heads, the latter known as Anat’s enemy in 1.83.9-10 and in a list of cosmic foes in CTA 3.3(D).35-39 (= KTU 1.3 III 38-42). This Ugaritic list includes “Sea,” Yamm//“River,” Nahar, Baal’s great enemy in CTA 2.4 (KTU 1.2 IV). In Isaiah 11:15 the traditions of Sea//River and the seven-headed dragon appear in conflated form:

And the Yahweh will utterly destroy the tongue of the sea of Egypt, and will wave his hand over the River with his scorching wind, and smite it into seven channels that men may cross dry-shod.

Here the destruction of Egypt combines both mythic motifs with the ancient tradition of crossing the Red Sea in Egypt. The seven-headed figure is attested in other biblical passages. In Psalm 89:10 the seven-headed figure is Rahab, mentioned in Isaiah 51:9-11 in the company of tannîn and Yamm. The seven-headed enemy also appears in Revelation 12:3, 13:1, 17:3 and in extrabiblical material, including Qiddushin 29b, Odes of Solomon 22:5, and Pistis Sophia 66. Yamm appears in late apocalyptic writing as the source of the destructive beasts symbolizing successive empires (Dan. 7:3). J. Day has suggested that this imagery developed from the symbolization of political states hostile to Israel as beasts. (The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel, pages 86-87, Mark Smith).

3

Speculative thoughts on Matthew 23 to 25

by Doug Mason in

the speculation i am about to propose over the fifth discourse of the gospel according to matthew, which includes chapters 23 to 25, is based on the following:.

1. up to the time that babylon destroyed the temple in jerusalem in the 6th century bce, the nation was dominantly polytheist.

leading up to that period, the tiny monotheist “yahweh-alone” gradually exerted increasing influence.

Doug Mason

I recall a dissertation on the Parable of the Talents ( Matt. 25:14-30 and parallels) that I came across a while ago, which probably I could now incorporate into my Model.

http://www.jwstudies.com/Craig_Evans_on_The_Talents.pdf

Doug

(thinking time music playing on the background)

3

Speculative thoughts on Matthew 23 to 25

by Doug Mason in

the speculation i am about to propose over the fifth discourse of the gospel according to matthew, which includes chapters 23 to 25, is based on the following:.

1. up to the time that babylon destroyed the temple in jerusalem in the 6th century bce, the nation was dominantly polytheist.

leading up to that period, the tiny monotheist “yahweh-alone” gradually exerted increasing influence.

Doug Mason

The speculation I am about to propose over the Fifth Discourse of the Gospel according to Matthew, which includes chapters 23 to 25, is based on the following:

1. Up to the time that Babylon destroyed the temple in Jerusalem in the 6th century BCE, the nation was dominantly polytheist. Leading up to that period, the tiny monotheist “Yahweh-alone” gradually exerted increasing influence. When the monarchy was overthrown and the masses decimated, the influence of the literate monotheists came to the fore. They created their own version of the nation’s history, and they laid the blame for the nation’s captivity, dispersion and the destruction of the temple at the feet of those who had opposed the monotheist’s preachers and prophets. Yahweh had caused the temple’s destruction because the people had not listened to the message given by the true religious leaders.

2. During the oppression of Jews by Antiochus Epiphanes in the second century BCE, Jewish leaders wrote coded messages of support to give strength and resolve to their people. They formulated the writings known as the Book of Daniel. Writing about past history as if it had been prophesied, the book’s coded messages were aimed against Antiochus Epiphanes. Similarly in the companion Book of Revelation, coded messages of support were given to John’s churches against their oppressors, the Roman Empire.

3. The Matthew gospel was written about 15 years after Jerusalem had been sacked by the Romans, its temple destroyed, and the people dispersed. The people who wrote that gospel had been the Jesus-followers who, unlike Paul, had been based in Jerusalem. Their experience was similar to that of the Babylonian captives.

Now to my speculative thoughts on Matthew chapters 23 to 25.

1. The writers of Matthew blamed the destruction of the temple by the Romans and their expulsion as being punishment by God. Their string of condemnations of the Pharisees at Matthew 23 represents the sentiment of the writers, which they put into Jesus’ mouth. (Writing 50 years or more after Jesus had lived, no gospel writer had personally experienced him.) At the end of their tirade against the Pharisees sect, the writers declared: “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! … Your house is left to you, desolate.” (Matt 22:37-38, NRSV)

2. For example, speaking obliquely to the Pharisees, the writers claim:

“On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many deeds of power in your name?’ Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; go away from me, you evildoers.’” (Matthew 23:21-23, NRSV)

3. When “predicting” the signs of the temple’s destruction, “Jesus” tells them that it would not happen because they heard stories about disasters. These had always happened since the birth. The sign they seek happens when certain ones called themselves “Anointed”. My speculation is that the writers were aiming at the Pharisees sect (Jesus was a Nazarene), using code in the fashion that is used by the other apocalypses, Daniel and Revelation.

4. Jesus then predicts the punishing they had experienced.

I hang my speculative skeleton out to blow in the wind. Do the parables that the writers accumulated within this context hang together with my speculation? I have not given any thought to that. Perhaps in time I will.

Doug

35

Matthew 24:34 not fulfilled in the first century

by Jules Saturn in

i was discussing with an elder the generation teaching and telling him when jesus christ says in matthew 24:34 “truly i say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.” he was referring to the generation from the first century in 33 ad and these events that were to take place took place with the destruction of jerusalem in 70 ad.

now the elder tells me to go back to a few verses to from verses 29-33 which read: .

“immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened,+ and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.+ 30 then the sign of the son of man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief,+ and they will see the son of man+ coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Doug Mason

The Matthew Gospel is structured as a series of five discourses. Each discourse begins and ends in the same fashion. Check the details with a search of the www.

The fifth discourse commences at the start of Matthew 23, with Jesus in the temple. After repeatedly berating the Scribes and the Pharisees (Jesus belonged to a different Jewish sect, the Nazorenes / Nazoroeans), the Gospel uses language to show that Jesus left the Temple both physically and spiritually. This leads into the question that the Gospel writers put into Jesus' mouth about the Temple while he was departing it. When they were writing, the Temple had been ransacked by the Romans 15 years previously.

In the following, Jesus' coming out of the temple and walking away from it has to be understood spiritually. Read it all from the beginning of the Fifth Discourse, the start of Chapter 23.

"See, your house is left to you, desolate. For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord.'" As Jesus came out of the temple and was going away, his disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the temple. Then [Jesus] asked [his four disciples], "You see all these, do you not? Truly I tell you, not one stone will be left here upon another; all will be thrown down." (Matthew 23:38-24:2, NRSV).

Doug